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Cagi

COMMUNITY Two New Adventuring Systems on Offer

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Hey hey people, Corgi here.

 

So after the Broken Shore Campaign, it turned out to be a pretty big success. My problem? It started off being managed by one guy which led to absolute chaos. Over 100 characters were logged in a lore story that spanned a few months and it was near-constant updates. As a result, I needed to rely on other team members to pick up my slack when it led to a burnout.

This being said, despite its flaws, it worked pretty dang well, and to not take things from that would be a travesty.

 

You're probably wondering now that Broken Shore is over: "What about Argus?"

To which I say there kinda IS a bit of a system in place for it, but that kind of stopped being my primary focus. I did the Broken Shore because people wanted to have more of a place in the world and for their actions to have an impact. Initiative was met with reward, communication, deeper roleplay and well-thought discussion with other players who took that stand. I want to give players that feeling not just on an arc-based basis but instead as adventurers in the overworld.

 

So I offer the concepts of two systems. If people like them pending a poll, we can see the nitty gritty developed further:

-Infamy

-Town Rep

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Infamy System:

Now it's no surprise that the development of antagonists is stymied for multiple reasons, such as requirement for applications, being short-lived and practically having to accept that players will target you simply for existing. That comes with the territory of the villain that makes themselves known (unless you're a sly bugger).

To which I propose the Infamy System, a way for players to make short but sweet requests to the moderation to get in on the system with their character idea before getting logged.

Doing so will allow players to start as restricted characters or need a DM request to get underway. Instead, the trade-off of not doing an extensive application is simply having to start from the ground up with the usual force limit of 5 people.

Consider the following example:

 

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Gnashpaw the Gnoll and his band of five gnoll bandits are looking to start their own tribe, to become a menace to human society. However, not much has really been done to justify doing what they do. The DM team is slow to respond to requests and it could take months to get anything started, making an application for forces both feels cheap and not worth the effort if people kill you early but you really want to do the idea for the sake of a good story. So! He signs up to the Infamy System. He signs:

 

Name:

Race:

Aspirations:

Region:

Enemies:

Plan to gather units (This can be things such as political intrigue, building a legend, buying mercenaries, etc):

 

The application is short and takes a lot less effort than usual, and only requires some quick approval to make sure it's not something forbidden. After that, he gets started. Instead of requests, he asks individual DMs to help with their personal plot for those that have the time, and for each victory, some form of reward may be granted for him and his small little faction. Maybe he starts to get recognised in the world because after a series of pillagings and murders of Stormwind knights, the gnolls start to gather to his camp, and he becomes the next Hogger. Maybe something BIGGER!

 

Perhaps the players react to his developed presence and after a bit of organisation and planning, Gnashpaw dies at the hands of a group of heroes. You know what? That's fine. It took little effort on their part to set up, the events leading up were fun, it created RP for those interested and maybe they even made new friends OOC who were invested in the storyline they had built themselves.

 

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Now I don't mind if there are some further restrictions on the choice of character or maybe their 5 starting forces, but I think this would be a good way to simply keep tabs on the development of antagonist characters rather than force them to make small essays for something they know may be slain after a short period of time. This is development like any newbie character but with less strain on breaking through the walls that Paragon has set up for the sake of policing quality.

 

Possible problems:

 

What if they turn good?: In the event of an Infamous character turning good, they will then have to apply for their forces, since the system does not need to apply to someone who has turned to the side is less obliged to be attacked.

What if I play a discreet character?: It could be that we have a note to determine how a person's overt reputation is, if they have one at all. This helps to prevent metagaming or someone just going on a hunt for every Infamous character on the board straight away.
What if I already have more than 5 forces?: Then you do not qualify. This is for people who want to start from the ground up, as opposed to helping 50 powerful warlords appear across the world at once.

What if I want to play a lich?: That...is actually a very viable problem. The Infamy System is designed to acknowledge the temporary nature of evil. Again, this is currently still just a concept that is being offered before it gets worked on further, but I suspect limitations on 'immortal' characters.

 

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Town Rep:

This might be one of the biggest strains since it involves the building of boards on a mass scale, but we could do it bit by bit instead of preparing a huge list from the get-go.

I think my biggest problem with the reputation system of Broken Shore is there was too much going on at once and it was hard to keep track of due to massive amounts of demand.

 

This being said, I still like the idea of a reputation system that is not by faction, but instead by town. As in what people can see as truth. A hero of Goldshire may mean absolutely nothing to the people of Kharanos or even Lakeshire. Akin to my old bounty board system, we could have a handful of objectives that refresh on a town board that allow players to tackle with small parties or even handle alone. This allows them to build their own legend across the land and acquire smaller, less substantial rewards, but do so on a longer personal campaign not driven by time frames or limitations on having them pursue a legend with only one faction.

 

What this brings to the table is the opportunity and reason for players to effortlessly get RP started in a given environment where they may want to start storylines, inspiring smaller-scale stories in more domestic areas, rather than waiting for DMs to announce a big threat in a given area.

 

Now when I mean reputation with a town, I mean its leader, such as characters like Marshal Dughan, Magistrate Solomon, etc. Reputation will not be becoming a big folk hero, but rather allows for a good relationship with that town through its leadership. This being said, it could allow for players to update their bios to make it so if they want a public reputation in the area, they can have it noted that players MIGHT know this character if they're from this area. It's a good way for a potential RP hook, to say the least.

Each town will also have their own small reward for hitting each rep milestone, though something that can be possessed by more than one person instead of handing out uniques.

 

An example of a few pieces would be like such:

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Goldshire Quest:

Quest name: Kobold Rebellion

Info: A kobold uprising has led to the seizing of a local mine and the town has been seeing less goods produced as a result. Clear out the issue, would you?

Reward: 50s

 

Razor Hill Quest:

Quest name: Quillboar Disruptions

Info: Hunters have been accosted by Quillboars in the local region, proving to be more of a challenge than the local wildlife. See them slain.

Reward: 50s

 

Pretty basic, good for small-town adventurers starting off and doesn't hand out a big piece of gear straight away, because the meat lies in the reputation. So let's look at where reputation might lie.

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Goldshire rewards:

Friendly: Free commissioned item from the local blacksmith

Honoured: 10% discount in local stores

Revered: An enchanted item from the nearby mage tower

Exalted: A rookie adventurer offers to join your cause. You may turn them down to which they will join the local guard, maybe giving you a favour in the future.

 

Razor Hill rewards:

Friendly: Free item from the leatherworker

Honoured: 10% discount in local stores

Revered: A shamanistic item
Exalted: The rookie adventurer scenario, same as before.

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They're pretty bog-standard, but it offers people the chance to start exploring the world while drawing more people to those places. It can give meaning to locations rarely visited, allows for social developments between players and characters and allows for incentive to appreciate the rainbow leading to the pot of gold.

Like the Campaign before, my biggest problem was trying to bear that burden alone, which is why I'd like to get all DM team members editing rights to pitch a hand in case they get called in for this kind of stuff. Burnout sucks, I've done it several times as a DM, one corgi isn't enough.

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Anyways, I was wondering what people think about these two systems, and if I should go forward with pitching this via a poll. If it pans out, we can see them made into fully-fledged systems that alleviate the stress on the DM team by way of original content creation and also on the player base for having to wait potentially weeks to months to get an event request done for something that can be logged and recorded for on-the-fly requests for a DM.

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I don't hate this infamy system, but I can see some kind of conflict in how you explain it.

1.) In the event that someone wants to just make a Gnoll chieftain with more than 5 NPC's that really is not a problem, nor is it a particularly hard application. Gnolls tend to follow the biggeest or most cunning boy around, so simply play your character up as the biggest and most cunning and you could easily start yourself off with like 20 Gnolls (in my opinion anyway) it's not really a hard app, it's just that unfortunately that concept isn't the most thrilling out there, and people don't usually want to play antagonists, or if they do, they just don't want them to end, so they join the Forsaken for diplomatic immunity. : )

2.) There's another problem that you kind of mention that conflicts with this whole thing.

You quote one of the main problems being...

 

17 minutes ago, Cagi said:

need a DM request to get underway.

 

But then you go onto say
 

18 minutes ago, Cagi said:

After that, he gets started. Instead of requests, he asks individual DMs to help with their personal plot for those that have the time,


You can already do this, you DON'T need requests if your character isn't gonna gain something munumental from the RP, you could ask a DM if you wanted to make ties with other Gnoll tribes and prove yourself a worthy leader, and get NPC's that way. The main problem with this however, is that a lot of DM's don't make themselves available for these kind of off-the-cuff requests, and the majority of the team kind of lacks a little bit of spontaneity, so unfortunately, this won't really fix the problem, the root of the problem is just that in and of itself, in this specific case. I don't think the system itself is the problem, so to speak, at least not in my opinion. I'm not entirely against implementing something like this, but I feel like it's gonna be a bloat to our already long list of systems, which is already confusing me more and more often as a member of the moderation team these days.

I'm kind of rambling here, but the end of the day maybe something as simple as saying "Players can gather up to a total of 20 (or another number, up for discussion) NPC's from DM's without having to make an application would be a good comprimise for this, since I don't really see much of a use for it other than low level bad guys who're just starting out.

> The Town Rep system does however sound more promising to me, but comes with it's own pitfalls, people may come to this expecting a personalised experience but may be a little disappointed if this falls into disrepute, if DM's fail to check this and a character has a reputation, then it becomes a little disheartening. However, as said before, I'd like to at least see how it goes.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jordy said:

After that, he gets started. Instead of requests, he asks individual DMs to help with their personal plot for those that have the time,

 

Big difference between getting DMs on the fly to do something that's already laid-out and making a request that can result in "Seen 20:59" and then sit for an extensive period of time. DMs are more often than not supposed to be on hand for stuff like this. We HAVE the numbers and the DMs have shown no problem DMing a concept that's already pre-established for them time and time again. The big problem is that when a request is made, you essentially tap into only one DM on set days. To me, that's wasted potential if you're wanting something smaller-scale but more consistent.

9 minutes ago, Jordy said:

The main problem with this however, is that a lot of DM's don't make themselves available for these kind of off-the-cuff requests, and the majority of the team kind of lacks a little bit of spontaneity, so unfortunately, this won't really fix the problem

Unfortunately you're pretty right on that, but to treat the problem, it must be understood. To be honest, I think it's high time we start setting quotas for DMs each month. If IRL problems are in the way, it's generally healthier to let them fix that problem before letting them rejoin. It gives a better idea of who is an active DM and who is less available. We can have 12+ DMs so the question is where all the activity's gone.

 

14 minutes ago, Jordy said:

and people don't usually want to play antagonists, or if they do, they just don't want them to end, so they join the Forsaken for diplomatic immunity. : )

 

As mentioned, if they want to join the side of 'good', they have to apply normally. This can also apply for things such as corrupt nobles, who don't qualify because they're already pre-established and have resources to start with. Also...Forsaken are their own special brand of screwy.

 

If the system isn't the problem, we need to start seeking help from the correct individuals when it comes to maintaining quality in order to make things like this work.

This being said, I AM more interested in the Town Rep, even if Infamy has potential.

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16 minutes ago, Cagi said:

The big problem is that when a request is made, you essentially tap into only one DM on set days.


The thing is, this doesn't have to be the case at all. The request is just there to get attention and to approve anything that's a little out there, and is only really a nessecity when DM's don't make themselves available for more spontaneous DMing. As long as communication flows well you could easily have one DM run event 1 in a chain, and another DM run event 2. No where in the rules is it stated that you can only use one DM at a specific time that you organise for one request. This is just the culture that has kind of built up within the DM team. If that's a big problem then just stop doing that, encourage people to be more open to spontaneity and yeah, maybe we should bring the quotas back.

Removing that just kind of indirectly allowed DM's to slip into inactivity, some for months at a time in the recent past.

 

16 minutes ago, Cagi said:

Big difference between getting DMs on the fly to do something that's already laid-out and making a request that can result in "Seen 20:59" and then sit for an extensive period of time.


Unfortunately, in my own experiences with both of my recent requests and the chain that I ran, and wanted help with, I've noted they're pretty much the same. I've only got certain DM's to even answer, even when poked in the chat. The difference is that you don't get left on seen when you directly whisper someone, you just get a round about way of saying 'no'.

What do you think of what I proposed as a comprimise though?

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Manager

 

8 minutes ago, Jordy said:

What do you think of what I proposed as a comprimise though?

Loosening limitations on forces for the sake of being an antag...would actually probably be nicer. Having people be more afraid of making evil doods because their risk of death is higher shows that we need more leniency when it comes to that specific concept. Good antagonists are a commodity, however short after all.

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I'd maybe give antags multiple lives, like one to three, so they can afford some mistakes. If they die, it's instead considered the death of a follower or someone similar to them. They suffer some penalty, but its not character loss. This encourages them to be a bit more bold and risky, and they can still be killed in retribution without being truly killed. Maybe only one extra life. It would give them enough of a safety cushion to grow from a squishy villain to a big bad that's harder to take down.

 

Just spitballin' my thoughts. This is irrelevant to demons and liches, but we're trying to encourage general antagonism, not big bads everywhere.

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Myeeeeah I dunno about that. That sounds more like a narrative nightmare than an incentive.

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I'd maybe give antags multiple lives, like one to three, so they can afford some mistakes. If they die, it's instead considered the death of a follower or someone similar to them. They suffer some penalty, but its not character loss. This encourages them to be a bit more bold and risky, and they can still be killed in retribution without being truly killed. Maybe only one extra life. It would give them enough of a safety cushion to grow from a squishy villain to a big bad that's harder to take down.
 
Just spitballin' my thoughts. This is irrelevant to demons and liches, but we're trying to encourage general antagonism, not big bads everywhere.
I like this. I know that when I've done the old Caretaker events where perm death wasn't a thing. I took all sorts of risks and went a lot further. True, the reward was on the line but hey, who cares? It's fun.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Manager

Alright, so villain incentives need work. That's fine.

 

I'm more curious to see if folks would be interested in polling for the release of a Town Rep system now.

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This being said, when it comes to making antags, there's also the added problem of applications. Forces are one thing but the choice of character should also require some leniency if they're set for a potentially temporary path.

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Developer

@Cagi Sorry to come into this so late, what's the current status of this idea?

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13 hours ago, Hydra said:

@Cagi Sorry to come into this so late, what's the current status of this idea?


The rep system has been underway for some time via 

 Which...hol' up who moved it to archive?

 

Anyways, Infamy never panned out, but rep is still being used to this day.

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1 hour ago, Cagi said:


The rep system has been underway for some time via 

 Which...hol' up who moved it to archive?

 

Anyways, Infamy never panned out, but rep is still being used to this day.

Awesome, thanks Cagi. I just moved the Rep one into Area Updates. 

 

Moved there as anything that didn't have activity for over 8 months was moved to an archive. Hopefully, with the new subforum, this shouldn't happen anymore for topics needed. 

 

With this (ironically) in mind, moving this to archive as well. 

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