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List of Changes - July / August 2020

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Greetings, Paragon!

Welcome to a very special change thread - a Part 1 out of many to changes being pushed out during the Fall and into the time of Winter. These changes are all directed towards things brought up to us via the community threads. We have heard you guys, and we want to make this a better server for all of you. This is just the first round of changes we are discussing and working on - expect more to come through the next few months.

Alongside these changes we do have some things going on very soon - the Rule Changes by Nathaniel will be closing out today, a new thread for a moderator vote soon enough, and more. These are exciting times, and we hope you stick with us to see where they lead.

In this thread, you will find a very long list of things we are doing - ranging from freeing up weapon models to freeing up more dragonflights. What this thread indicates is what we are changing, and that this will be happening over the course of the next few weeks at the very least. These changes were discussed in a Moderator Meeting as of 7/31/2020 and were approved by the entire team. That being said let's get down to business!

A: Application Changes

1A. Progression is now going to be removed from every rank & role  except for the highest attainable role where applicable. This means things like Field Marshal, Exarch, Warlord, High Executor, Atal-ogoun, Ranger-Lord, and Knight-Lord will be the only ones requiring the idea of progression to attain. However, this comes with a caveat - the other ranks marked as progression below those highest possible ranks will be instead marked as limited. This, at least for now, will set in stone how we want to treat those officer & likewise roles.

On top of this change is that the moderation team will be working on what counts as enough. What is enough progression as a general team-wide standard. We will be looking at getting that out alongside the rest of the changes dictated in this thread. If we can get it out sooner we will! Expect a community thread to discuss these standards as well. These standards will be applied to Archdruids and Archmages as well - pinnacles of their professions/class. 

2A. Dragonflights are getting a boost! That is right, we are allowing the Twilight Dragonflight and Black Dragonflight to be playable sometime after this announcement. Whelps, Drakes, and Matures for both flights will be allowed - with Matures being under our Limited list. However, these come with some stipulations! Both the Black Dragonflight and Twilight Dragonflight are notoriously evil or otherwise corrupted. This must be adhered to for any under these flights, but you may eventually find a way to clear mind or uncorrupt - however, that will all be given a general idea of what we're looking for once we've made the changes to the races list.

3A. The RPG is returning! Well sort of. Scottie has been hard at work on something called a Class Guide. Under this Class Guide, you will be able to find the moderator's view on specific RPG classes and how they can be achieved. However, other classes that cannot stand on their own will fall under a base class - and this guide will state which ones. Not all of the classes will be returning as is, but some also come hand in hand with another change we've made - which you will read below.

B: Lore Additions & Clarifications, etc

1B. Lore Additions is coming back! That is right, we are going to be modifying the Lore Clarifications forum to include additions as well. Under this change we are going to be changing the template just a little, among other things. What this means is that if you have an addition to the universe that aligns with the lore at the time? You will be free to post it once the template has changed. 

2B. Under the above change, we will be re-evaluating archived additions and taking them under our wing to tweak them. This also means that we will be welcoming additions in the vein of Forgeborn. This does mean that if you have a way you would like to see us do something as well? You can put it up to be judged. Now, a note about this - we will be very critical of what goes up. How this translates will have to be seen, but we do have an idea of what we will and won't allow - which we will try our best to get into word format via a thread.

3B. All things materials are going to be getting a guide sometime in the near future. With the help of Jordy's Metal & Other Material clarification + input from the community, we will be creating this all around guide to materials of the Warcraft universe. This will eventually expand to include types of silks, gems, and more. Expect this to go up within the next few months - we have a lot to do and a lot to get through!

C: Roleplay, Events, and Story 

1C. We will be continuing the Legion story through Argus. Cagi, Tass, and others will start discussing how we are to do Argus shortly, but the goal here is to deliver something based on the poll - a story not as is from retail but something a little more. This also means that the Tomb of Sargeras was our last "retail" raid of the expansion. 

2C. We will be working to end Legion on a high note - going from Argus into the Epilogue. We don't have any details to share yet, but we want things to matter going forward. This means the Sword of Sargeras will have an impact on the rest of the world and more. The state of the world will change come the Epilogue & the grace period, but more details will come later this year.

3C. Events and Event Requests are getting a rework sometime this year before we re-open event requests. We are very aware of the Event Culture that is part of Paragon, but we will be evaluating the idea of what requires an event and what doesn't. Alongside this, we will be taking a look at other ideas to further roleplay and character interactions - including our other points of interest in this thread. 

4C. Social Roleplay is getting some attention from the moderation team. We are still hashing out the details of how this will work. Some of the things we want to try is more holiday-esque things alongside the DM team. On top of that we are looking to helping characters get a head start on their business through the proxy of their people's nation. How this works out is still getting detailed, but expect more to come on that as soon as we have it ready. We will also be returning to doing the Winter's Veil Gifts this year - something Drak started.

5C. This isn't all set in stone, but we will be actively discussing how we handle BFA later this year - after we've gotten through the changes such as these. We are very much interested in stepping away from how we've done things before. This includes how, if done, we handle the BFA story elements. This will be a part of the larger BFA discussion the moderation team has.

6C. We will no longer be coming down on people's roleplay. In the past, some prior actions may have caused us to come off as if we were putting a halt to specific people's stories & more. We will instead be taking a few steps back from harder stances we took - including on the sort of progress people are making. If we do approach, it will be to discuss what is going on. Our stances and our approach are changing, and we want to better promote people's ability to tell their character's stories here on Paragon.

We will still be watching for sudden fast tracks within days/weeks as well as rule/lore breaking roleplay, but these things will no longer suddenly be treated to a hammering approach. We do still ask that stuff comes through us via Contact Moderation if its wild enough or if we believe it needs to be archived by us. There is a possibility of us setting out a guideline for what we consider needing a contact mod thread versus what doesn't

D. Other

Builders are getting a slight revamp to the team as a whole. So, we are not going to be doing a builder manager until the team grows - instead, builders will be overseen by Sage and the other moderators. It does get better - no longer do builders have to wait for an interior application to do work. When or if a builder has inspiration to build? They can come to a moderator and ask "Hey, can I build x?" and get the approval on the spot. This will require them to check in with us and show us their progress. While it doesn't need to be applied for now, it does mean that we will need to be informed BEFORE you begin.

Secondly, we will be looking at how we handle "inheritance" type builds - how that is done is being looked at and will be worked on by Scottie and myself. This does mean that some things will get relaxed and we may very well be tweaking the templates as is. We will also be actively looking at how else we may improve interiors & the life of builders.

Finally, we're going to be trying to get something going about a Public Interior list with the help of the community and that most importantly means the builders. There's still some things to get done with that, but expect that to go up sometime this Fall. This list will only grow with your guys' help - so be prepared.

2D. The Rules are changing! Well, not only do we have rules coming out via Nathaniel's changes, but we have a new rule change to Weapon Models. We will be loosening up more weapon/item models for use. You can expect to see an explanation of these coming soon - but what will REMAIN restricted is as follows: Frostmourne, Aegis of Aggramar, Hammer of Khaz'goroth, HD Gorehowl, Shalamayne, Turalyon's Sword, and Ashbringer. Anything else will be brought up in an upcoming thread. Please hold off on using what this now frees up until after the thread has appeared - which will take time.

3D. We are actively looking for new members of all teams - especially builders and moderators at this moment. Now is a time of change, and we would love for any of you to be a part of it. 

There was more discussed, but the rest is being saved for another time - this is all already a lot for us to do at once. Expect these things to happen when we've gotten them finished & ready for you all. Thank you for being an amazing community, and an amazing place to be on.

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well, the way you've itemized these things is kind of weird. Normally, you'd go 1A, 1B, 1C, 2A, 2B, 2C, etc. Nitpick aside, I'll go down the list with what I think.


1A seems like an acceptable trade-off.


2A is... fine, I guess. Having more evil dragons around will bring back an aspect of fantasy that's been missing from warcraft.


3A raises some eyebrows. I dunno how to react, but it doesn't matter much to me atm so I'll see how the community feels.


1B. Now that's a surprise, a good surprise.


2B Somebody call Runok.


3B *squints* This greatly intrigues me. I would like to take part in this ordering of the universe. Also, Jordy's legacy lives on.


1C Sounds good.


2C Don't fuck it up. But if you do fuck it up, fix it.


3C I wanna have input on this, but sounds good.


4C Uhhhh this is all kinds of strange and interesting? I'd like to know more, that's all I can say.


5C Now this is an interesting topic. Are we going to move away from an A-Z system, and instead treat the possibilities as like puzzle pieces that we could re-arrange? Because, then, there exists an opportunity to take the foundation Blizzard has given us and make it not-shitty wherever it's proven shitty. Taking what feels right, and altering or rejecting what's lame or otherwise unsatisfying, I think that's a good direction to move in. We'll at least start taking some agency in the story's direction, and that's huge. Very different from before.


6C You haven't said anything specific about what kind of things you'll be more accepting of. But, I like the direction it's going. I will wait to see more examples of this before I let excitement bubble in, but I'm hopeful.


1D I raise my eyebrows. I will ignore my security flaw senses and say that this is probably a decent way of showing more trust for our builders. But please, no mainphase spontaneous building unless there's some meaningful reason behind it, like in response to ongoing events or a roleplay, etc. Apart from that, if this inspires people to build, great.


2D I'm sure someone cares, but I really don't. I guess at least this is evidence that we're loosening up, though, and removing the stick that has been shoved far up paragon's ass.


3D hey, that's me!



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Much of what you've said hinges on us getting our stuff done and out to the community - hence why I said this will all occur over the next few weeks.

Oops on the Itemization/listing order!

On 6C, there's not a lot of concrete examples we can give at this moment - its just that we aren't...coming down as harshly on people, or the intent is for us to avoid coming down as such. We'll still have scrutiny, but its more that our approach now is to have a better approach - our aim is to work with people, not shut them down. Stuff like an AU orc coming to MU, a Lightforged coming to Azeroth early, and more - we MAY put out a thread saying "Here's what we encourage" versus "hey dont do this." - but no promises on when/if that'll happen any time soon.

5C; That is still being worked out, but this was more us saying 'hey here's whats maybe happening when we get to discussing bfa'. I do believe what you state is a potential idea we briefly mentioned in the meeting.

1D; Again, people have to come to us but we're also more than likely going to set a general size limit to free building. We don't want Highridges or Trautenfels without those getting applications.

3C; There's a process we'll be doing with this. First the moderators & the EMs will talk about it, then the DMs, and then the community as a whole. That's the initial idea at least, but that can be tweaked.

4C; More details are coming ASAP! 

3B; The thread for this will be going up sometime this month, with any luck. Formatting, etc -- need to get other stuff just right.

(I did the wrong order of addressing on purpose this time)

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